Need help in identify the sword

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Need help in identify the sword

Presentation sabre from the Czechoslovak Ministry of National Defence to Vietnamese General

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    Hi,
    I don't speak Czech, therefore I can only write this in English.


    I need help to identify this kind of sword, and information about it. In my country it was the presentation sabre from the Czechoslovak Ministry of Defence to General Vo Nguyen Giap during 1958 - 1960. I need to do research but have no more information. Please help me with this.


    Thank you all
    URL : http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/194457#559906Verze : 4
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    Dear Sir,
    photo does not Czechoslovak saber. In your case, it might be a ceremonial sword "Kossuth" Model 1948 (1948M Kossuth Kard) of the Hungarian People's Army (sure 6 out of ten).
    URL : http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/194457#559990Verze : 1
    MOD
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    Interesting! It said "from the MNO ČSSR", yet I can't find a same one from Czech.


    And by the look of the metal color, does steel become that much yellow?


    Here's a closer look. I cannot see the badge on the hilt, so not sure if it's the kossuth kard.
    URL : http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/194457#559991Verze : 2
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    Thank you!


    It looks like mostly this one was given in Hungary, rather than Czechoslovakia.


    For more information, is there a place where I can ask about the circumstance of the presentation? Thanks!
    URL : http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/194457#560028Verze : 0
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    As we used to be one communist block of countries, there were many parts of industry, that has been made in one country and distributed to others. It is possible, that this sword, originated from Hungary, has been purchased to Czechoslovakia a from our government donated to Vo Nguyen Giap.


    But there are some doubts about the date you've mentioned - as you say, it states "MNO CSSR", which means "ministerstvo narodni obrany, Ceskoslovenska socialisticka republika" - "ministry of defence, czechoslovak socialistic republic". This name our country used since 11th of July, 1960 - see en.wikipedia.org so any gift given with that description could occur only after this date, not before - definetly not 1958.


    I've found a mention about Vo Nguyen Giap visit to Czechoslovakia on 19.-29.10.1979 here http://www.psp.cz/eknih/1976fs/tisky/t0091_00.htm, he was here as a head of ministry of defence, which would be the right time (and position equal to our MNO) to give such a gift.


    Citace :


    Z čs. strany v posledních letech lze jako závažnější stykové akce po-
    litického významu uvést účast stranické a vládní delegace ČSSR v čele
    se členem předsednictva ÚV KSČ a místopředsedou vlády ČSSR J. Korčákem
    na oslavách 30. výročí VDR, účast delegace ÚV KSČ vedené členem před-
    sednictva a tajemníkem ÚV KSČ V. Biľakem na IV. sjezdu KSV v prosinci
    1976, návštěvu ministra zahraničních věcí B. Chňoupka ve VSR v březnu
    1977, návštěvu kulturní delegace vedené místopředsedou vlády ČSSR M. Lú-
    čanem v listopadu 1977, návštěvu delegace ÚRK ÚV KSČ vedené jejím před-
    sedou M. Čapkou v říjnu 1978, návštěvu delegace Čs. svazu žen vedené
    členkou sekretariátu ÚV KSČ a předsedkyní svazu M. Kabrhelovou v říjnu
    1978, návštěvu čs. odborové delegace vedené členem předsednictva ÚV KSČ,
    a předsedou ÚRO ČSSR K. Hoffmannem v únoru 1979 a návštěvu delegace
    ministerstva vnitra ČSSR vedené ministrem J. Obzinou v lednu 1979. Se zře-
    telem ke skutečnosti, že v souvislosti s těmito čs. návštěvami ve VSR byly
    většinou realizovány reciproční návštěvy vietnamských představitelů v ČSSR,
    lze konstatovat, že rozsah i úroveň vzájemných styků na tomto úseku byly
    v souladu s čs. i vietnamskými zájmy. Potvrdila to i poslední návštěva
    stranické a vládní delegace VSR v ČSSR ve dnech 19. -29. 10. 1979, kterou
    vedl člen politického byra ÚV KSV, místopředseda vlády a ministr ná-
    rodní obrany VSR, armádní generál Vo Nguyen Giap
    , jakož i návštěva čs.
    stranické a státní delegace na nejvyšší úrovni, vedené generálním tajemní-
    kem Ú V KSČ a prezidentem ČSSR G. Husákem, ve VSR ve dnech 12. -15. 2.
    1980.



    this text is citing several visits between Vietnam and Czechoslovakia on government level, to describe a level of "good relations" between our countries within the communist block.
    URL : http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/194457#560036Verze : 4
    MOD
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    I'm sorry that I mention the wrong date. It's said that the sabre was given "to the Vietnamese military delegates in 1966". The link you gave only mention meetings from the 70s to 1980. I wonder if there were any meetings during the 60s?


    Also if this sabre is from Hungary, I read that General Giap visited Hungary during 1967-1968, was it possible that this one was given in Hungary, not Czechoslovakia?


    Thank you!
    URL : http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/194457#560054Verze : 0
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    no problem, it does make more sense now Smile


    I'd doubt that you would get the sword in Hungary and have that "from MNO CSSR" on that, Hungary would have add some different message. There were for sure visits in the 60's, altho I'm not aware of any, will try to do more research on that topic (but taken into account that at that time the war was running, I have no idea if he was able (has the time) to fly to Europe). Lets look for more indices Smile
    URL : http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/194457#560058Verze : 1
    MOD
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    I checked my sources and the sabre is probably a gift from Czechoslovak government delegation that visited Vietnam apparently in the late September 1966.


    [Following the escalation of war between US and Vietnamese forces in 1965, there were usually several meetings a year between Czechoslovak and Vietnamese (mostly military) delegations that discussed deliveries of Czechoslovak military material to Vietnam as a form of socialistic help in the war with the USA]
    URL : http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/194457#560063Verze : 0
    MOD
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    Thanks for your information! Can I know the source of that?


    So it might make sense that probably the CZK government bought this sabre from Hungary and gave this to the Vietnamese, not by the Hungarian government.
    URL : http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/194457#560097Verze : 0
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    The source is a file from Military Historical Archive.


    (VÚA-VHA, MNO, 1966, SMP, box 188, folder 1/-, number 0017979, Zpráva o jednání str. a vládní delegace ve VDR, October 1966)
    URL : http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/194457#560103Verze : 0
    MOD
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    http://www.vuapraha.cz/node/65


    Is it from this site? The file however was in Czech, so it might be a little hard for me to find the right one
    URL : http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/194457#560115Verze : 0
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    yes, this is our official military historical archive
    URL : http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/194457#560116Verze : 0
    MOD
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    Unfortunately, the files from Military Historical Archive are basically not digitized and accessible via Internet.
    URL : http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/194457#560124Verze : 0
    MOD
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    It's so sad to hear that. I don't know if the MHA accepts the request for information.


    So far as we reach here, I also found this link: www.psp.cz


    It mentioned that a deputy prime minister visited CZK in January 1966. So, it might be that either it was given in January, or in September. Without the archive, this is just as far as I can reach now.


    And maybe the CZK gov bought this from Hungary, rather than given the mod 1952.
    URL : http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/194457#560125Verze : 0