Vz.60 mlok 22. Vysadkova brigada

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Vz.60 mlok 22. Vysadkova brigada

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    Hi, I search info about Vz.60 mlok uniform. I'm interesting in 22.vysadkova brigada photos of paratroopers in mlok uniform. I would like to know history of this uniform too, and if was supplies to others army. Luca
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#126452Verze : 0
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    This is uniform "MLOK" ?


    On the left is my father from 1963-65 years,in 7.stíhací letecký pluk(7.fighter wing) Piešťany city,west Slovakia.
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#126646Verze : 0
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    [quote="brano"]This is uniform "MLOK" ? On the left is my father from 1963-65 years,in 7.stíhací letecký pluk(7.fighter wing) Piešťany city,west Slovakia.[/quote] Yes. Compliments fro your father and thank you for the splendid photos. They are in mlok uniform. The uniform look as the paratrooper smock with the hood and the chest pocket. About the unit 7. stihaci letecky pluk: is 7.vysadkovy pluk? Thank you. I remain intersting about every thing on czech special forces in Warsaw Pact era (specially 1960 to 1989 years). I have two book: Vysadkari a prizkumnici and Cervene barety. To soon Luca
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#126653Verze : 0
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    [quote="Jiří Tintěra"]Short info: www.battlefront.com] Thank you. I have seen this site and it's very interesting. I have a mlok paratrooper smock. I search the pants too and the paratrooper rucksack (wasaw pact era). Best regards Luca
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#126655Verze : 0
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    Citace - soldatoitaliano :

    About the unit 7. stihaci letecky pluk: is 7.vysadkovy pluk?



    No,no...this is a fighter air unit,in this time armed MiG-19(?) fighter.
    It´s as well as combat uniform airfield personnel.
    My father he was a bus and car driver.


    *Sorry,my english is bad.
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#126674Verze : 0
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    [quote:a74c00f0cf="soldatoitalianoI remain intersting about every thing on czech special forces in Warsaw Pact era (specially 1960 to 1989 years).
    I have two book: Vysadkari a prizkumnici and Cervene barety.



    ...Czechoslovakia special forces in Warshav Pact era... Exclamation Smile


    22.výsadková brigáda establishing in 1952 in Prešov(east Slovakia/Czechoslovakia).
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#126676Verze : 0
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    [quote="brano"][quote="soldatoitaliano"]About the unit 7. stihaci letecky pluk: is 7.vysadkovy pluk? [/quote] No,no...this is a fighter air unit,in this time armed MiG-19(?) fighter. It´s as well as combat uniform airfield personnel. My father he was a bus and car driver. *Sorry,my english is bad.[/quote] I understand. Now I see the photo best and I look that the uniform have not the hood and there are two chest pocket: ok is not the paratrooper uniform. Someone tell me that at first the mlok camo uniform was for all czech Army, then only for paratroopers. So your father have this uniform, but was not airborne. Last. But Your father was in a Air Force unit, and perhaps in airfields with Migs, the soldiers were supplied with elite unifom. Remember that Mlok camo had a strange history: this pattern was from italian Telo Mimetico camo pattern. Czech army see this in War II, and in Warsaw Pact from italian camo born the czech variant MLOK\salamander. Splendid uniform. Good in autumn bush... Bye
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#126699Verze : 0
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    [quote="brano"][quote="soldatoitalianoI remain intersting about every thing on [b]czech[/b] special forces in Warsaw Pact era (specially 1960 to 1989 years). I have two book: Vysadkari a prizkumnici and Cervene barety. [/quote] ...[b]Czechoslovakia[/b] special forces in Warshav Pact era... Exclamation Smile 22.výsadková brigáda establishing in 1952 in Prešov(east Slovakia/Czechoslovakia).[/quote] Someone tell that 22.Vyasadkova Brigada after 1968 soffered soviet military limitation: have you info about?
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#126700Verze : 0
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    Soldatoitaliono, to your last question:


    Steven Zaloga & James Loop: Soviet Bloc Elite Forces, Elite series 005, Osprey Publishing Ltd., 1985 (reprint 1998), London, GB; page 53:


    Citace - Osprey :


    The CSLA (Ceskoslovenska lidova armada: Czechoslovak People's Army) deploys a fairly small number of élite troops. The 1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia was followed by a purge of the Army, which resulted in widespread demoralisation and difficulty in filling officer and NCO positions with competent, motivated personnel. Prior to the invasion the CSLA had an airborne brigade, the 22 Vysadkova Brigada; but this unit is currently reduced to regimental size, possibly due to the aftermath of the events of 1968. It is stationed near Prosnice, and consist of one active, one reserve, one special operations and one training battalion plus support units. It has paraded with OT-64 SKOT armoured troops carriers, but when deployed on Warsaw Pact manoeuvres it does not appear to be very heavily mechanised. Like the East German airborne units, it appears to be a light airborne infantry force. There are also reports that the CSLA has a commando battalion, but details are lacking. There are also references to a 7th Airborne Battalion, but again, few details are available.



    I'm interested neither in Special forces or in ČSLA. So I am not able to provide more informations. I only have this book in my bookcase Smile



    BTW: Note the publication year - 1985.
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#126713Verze : 0
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    Oděv vz.60 byl v provedení "jehličí" nebo "mloky",střihově jsou naprosto shodné,od obou provedení byla zavedena běžná varianta i varianta pro výsadkáře. Není pravda že to jsou jen výsadkářské maskáče. Mloky se od jehličí liší jen použitou látkou,ty co jsem viděl já,byly hustěji,pevněji utkané látky,jehličí je méně tuhé.Mlokáče se cca. v polovině padesátých let začaly stahovat,dosluhovaly jako pracovní oděv. Kamarádův otec sloužil 1967-69 u průzkumné roty v Janovicích nad Úhlavou a říká,že je měli jako jedni z posledních.
    Co se týče výsadkářů,doporučuju knihu autorů Blahout-Koníček Českoslovenští výsadkáři a průzkumníci,tam jsou mlokáče nafocené.
    A ještě k té internetové stránce,mají tam v těch maskáčích dost zmatek,jsou tam přeházené české popisky atd.
    Najde se někdo kdo to italskému kolegovi přeloží? Moje angličtina na to nestačí. Děkuji.
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#126726Verze : 0
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    to Pavel Blaha


    Vz.60 a sťahované boli v polovici 50.rokov ? Viem,že sa niekedy niektoré vzory neurčovali striktne podľa roku zavedenia,ale......??? Takže boli bežné i v iných,než výsadkárskych,prieskumáckych jednotkách ?Nemyslím,či sa používali ako prac.odev,ale či to boli ich boj.maskáče. Neboli používané i v jednotkách pohraničnej stráže ? Popravde som tento vzor považoval za tesne povojnovú záležitosť,tak teraz neviem...


    to soldatoitaliano


    Pavel Blaha he claims where this uniforms is not strictly paratroopers.This uniform used for working cloth until to later 60.years/early 70.years.
    Vz.60 is 2 variants-"Jehličí" and "Mloky".Both versions existing army version and paratrooper version.Paratrooper version have stronger needle.
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#126741Verze : 0
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    Dear Sir, I'm sorry within electronic version up English. Shall transcript point Mr. Oldřich Vaněk "Výsadkové jednotky čs. armády na Slovensku v rokoch 1950-1960" publication within periodical Vojenská história, year 1998, issue 2, pages 62-85. Text them within speech Slovakia! Transcript are stowed within ftp://holly.valka.cz
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#126747Verze : 0
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    Well, I am slightly afraid this discussion is getting a bit confusing for our Italian colleague.
    Now I believe it is the best moment to give it proper spin...
    When speaking about Mk.60 "Mlok" pattern camouflage uniform we have to mention two different patterns of camouflage and two different types/styles of dress.


    1. Different camouflage pattern:
    Mk.60 so called "Mlok" and Mk.60 so called "Needles" - "Mlok" pattern is older, "Needles" pattern" appeared a bit later as a result of certain "unification effort" of cammo within the Warsaw treaty armies.
    That is why "Needles" pattern seems to be very similar to former NVA camouflage uniform (ex GDR Army field dress).
    It is necessary to mention these two different patterns of Mk.60 camo differed in the fabric they were made of. "Mlok" was made of a bit "smoother" fabric with higher density providing better windproof and waterproof capability, "Needles" were made of a bit rougher and thicker fabric and they tend to be worn off faster...


    2. Different type/style of dress
    "Mlok" camo pattern:
    "Usual" style of field uniform could be recognized by having a usual collar and a removable hood on the parka
    "Airborne" style could be recognized by having LARGER/WIDER POCKETS and a NON REMOVABLE HOOD INSTEAD OF A COLLAR, there were more minor different "improvements" not visible at the first sighting.
    "Needles" camo pattern:
    "Airborne" style could be recognized by having pocket on the sleeves and hip part of the blouse, etc., etc.. e.g. sleeves vith cuffs.


    The airborne troops adopted "Mlok" Mk.60 camo dress later than "regular" units did - till that day the airborne troops were wearing so called Mk.19 training uniforms and so called "Kamuflážka" oversuit or better to say upper blouse..
    Exclusivity makes the rule - and nobody can hardly say "Mlok" pattern with hood were for the airborne guys only... That is whay you can see guys wearing "Mlok" with hood obviously not belonging to the airborne troops (and by the way try to recognize which hood is fixed and which one could be removed)...


    Notice that no airborne soldiers were wearing typical and famous beret at the time pics were taken...


    By the way "Needle" pattern had seen some development ofstyle of the blouse during years - for a short time I had a blouse with "inner skirt" to provide better windproof capability and the camo had groups of white spots - and I am sure that it was not a result of steam or dry washing.


    Especially for the guy from Italy there are some scancopies of pictures catching guys wearing "Mlok" Mk.60 pattern field dress.
    Do not read the captions of pictures and try to guess who is or is not an airborne.


    Have fun!

    Sweat spares blood - march or die. Notice the breast rank patch with three stripes of NCO - sergeant. WE NEED YOU - ENLIST NOW!

    Unpacking an airdroppable container - getting Tarasnice T-21 and ammo carriers/containers. Notice the airborne rucksacks...

    I am your drill instructor guys - follow me NOW!

    Notice the typical airborne rucksack. During the PT tests the dress regulations are not followed so strictly...

    Fix bayonets and RUN TO ENGAGE THE ENEMY AT CLOSE QUARTERS!

    A propaganda picture or real life?

    A propaganda picture or real life?

    A break between the episodes of field exercises - time for shooting training (snowball game)

    Scouts out! - that is the best way how to spend a sunny day

    Ear protectors derived from tankers helmet. Recoiless gun - BzK

    Target hit, one more shot for sure? Tarasnice T-21 in action...
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#126750Verze : 0
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    To Palič a spol. :


    Pre angličtiny menejneznalých,Vás chcem poprosil o vytvorenie prekladu a novej témy v československých uniformách.
    Vrelá vďaka.
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#126764Verze : 0
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    ja to potom cele prelozim a prekopiruju, az se dobereme konce teto diskuse Very Happy



    soldatoitaliano : we are finding this discussion usefull even for czech and slovak users of this, so once you will have all the info, we will also make a copy of this thread and translate it for our non-english-speaking users Smile


    Thanks Palic for his images and explanations !
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#126788Verze : 0
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    2 Palič: Pictures you have given here are from certain book?
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#126993Verze : 0
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    For such questions Lišák-výs. is asking here we have personal messages I am sure.
    The answer equal to the question is: YES


    Na takové otázky, jakou zde pokládá Lišák-výs. zde podle mého názoru máme "soukromé zprávy".
    Odpověď na otázku tak, jak byla položena je: ANO
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#127013Verze : 0
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    Citace - soldatoitaliano :

    Citace - brano :

    [quote:86c2d1f57f="soldatoitalianoI remain intersting about every thing on czech special forces in Warsaw Pact era (specially 1960 to 1989 years).
    I have two book: Vysadkari a prizkumnici and Cervene barety.



    ...Czechoslovakia special forces in Warshav Pact era... Exclamation Smile


    22.výsadková brigáda establishing in 1952 in Prešov(east Slovakia/Czechoslovakia).



    Someone tell that 22.Vyasadkova Brigada after 1968 soffered soviet military limitation: have you info about?


    After Warsaw treaty troops invasion was 22. airborne brigade reduced into 22. airborne regiment and 7. airborne reconnaissance regiment (Intelligency office) was cancelled as counter-revolutionary. It happened till end of 1969.
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#127306Verze : 0
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    Citace - palič :


    Well, I am slightly afraid this discussion is getting a bit confusing for our Italian colleague.
    Now I believe it is the best moment to give it proper spin...
    When speaking about Mk.60 "Mlok" pattern camouflage uniform we have to mention two different patterns of camouflage and two different types/styles of dress.


    1. Different camouflage pattern:
    Mk.60 so called "Mlok" and Mk.60 so called "Needles" - "Mlok" pattern is older, "Needles" pattern" appeared a bit later as a result of certain "unification effort" of cammo within the Warsaw treaty armies.
    That is why "Needles" pattern seems to be very similar to former NVA camouflage uniform (ex GDR Army field dress).
    It is necessary to mention these two different patterns of Mk.60 camo differed in the fabric they were made of. "Mlok" was made of a bit "smoother" fabric with higher density providing better windproof and waterproof capability, "Needles" were made of a bit rougher and thicker fabric and they tend to be worn off faster...


    2. Different type/style of dress
    "Mlok" camo pattern:
    "Usual" style of field uniform could be recognized by having a usual collar and a removable hood on the parka
    "Airborne" style could be recognized by having LARGER/WIDER POCKETS and a NON REMOVABLE HOOD INSTEAD OF A COLLAR, there were more minor different "improvements" not visible at the first sighting.
    "Needles" camo pattern:
    "Airborne" style could be recognized by having pocket on the sleeves and hip part of the blouse, etc., etc.. e.g. sleeves vith cuffs.


    The airborne troops adopted "Mlok" Mk.60 camo dress later than "regular" units did - till that day the airborne troops were wearing so called Mk.19 training uniforms and so called "Kamuflážka" oversuit or better to say upper blouse..
    Exclusivity makes the rule - and nobody can hardly say "Mlok" pattern with hood were for the airborne guys only... That is whay you can see guys wearing "Mlok" with hood obviously not belonging to the airborne troops (and by the way try to recognize which hood is fixed and which one could be removed)...


    Notice that no airborne soldiers were wearing typical and famous beret at the time pics were taken...


    By the way "Needle" pattern had seen some development ofstyle of the blouse during years - for a short time I had a blouse with "inner skirt" to provide better windproof capability and the camo had groups of white spots - and I am sure that it was not a result of steam or dry washing.


    Especially for the guy from Italy there are some scancopies of pictures catching guys wearing "Mlok" Mk.60 pattern field dress.
    Do not read the captions of pictures and try to guess who is or is not an airborne.


    Have fun!



    Hullo, and thank you very much.
    Sorry for delay to respond and thank.


    Finally I have a response about the czech paratrooper camo uniform in Warsaw pact era.
    Only a thing, that you tell me but I dont understand perfect.
    Mlok uniform is for all army, infantry and airborne: well.
    But exist a mlok uniform only for paratrooper: hood not detachable and 3 inner pocket and inner elastic band. You add: very difficolt to see difference with infantry because they have hood too but detachable. But, repete, 22.vyasadkova brigada paratroopers had supplied with an esclusive smock. yes??
    Same thing for pine needle pattern: here the difference is not the hood detachable or because is ever detachable, but the para smock hahe 3 inner pocket and the elastic band on ribs. yes??


    Confirm me that I understand?
    To soon
    Luca
    Italy
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#127566Verze : 0
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    There are some mistakes about vz. 60 "mlok" camouflage uniform here:

    Vz. 60 "mlok" camouflage uniform was created as standart all-round uniform for all-army use. First known pieces of this uniform are from 1960 as opposite to vz.60 "jehličí", which started in 1961. In the same time was created other camouflage pattern, so called "Raindrops" or "Needles" (there are some different names, obvious Czech term is "Jehličí" as used), which became standart camouflage pattern of former ČSLA (Czechoslovak People's Army), next ČSA (Czechoslovak Army) and AČR (Army of Czech Republic) as far as late 90's (but in late 80's became canceled and substitued by vz.85, later vz.95 for combat and training use and used as working dress).

    Reasons for canceling of "Mlok" pattern were mainly 2: standartization between Warszaw Pact armies and not so good color scheme for mid-european area. Rumours says that there was another reason, Soviets saw similarity with German WWII patterns and didn't like it...

    There were three types of jacket, about two types of troussers, parka, some only slightly different types of separate hood, cap and a hardly seen bag.

    There was no paratroop version of uniform - it is rumour only.

    First production version jacket was with hood fixed and front pocket on right side, from user's point of a view. Pocket had a visible knobs. It is model in the upper photo from an airfield, both pocket and FIXED hood are clearly visible. I have many photos of Czech paratroopers wearing this model, too.

    Second subversion looked similar, had same fixed hood, but the front pocket was repositioned to the left and knobs were covered (back pocket had same uncovered pins like a previous version).

    Last version was same as previous, but had no hood and actually looks very similar to all-army version of vz.60 "jehličí" jacket.

    Czech paratroops used all three models, as they came from production or from other units (because after canceling of "mlok" and substituting by "jehličí", "mloks" were often moved to para units, next sold to South Africa and Cuba). There exist many photos of Czech paratroops in different versions of "mloks". And they ARE paratroops, not like many guys in photos here.

    All three variants were used by paratroopers, definitivelly. Same was with both types of troussers. These are with or without side cargo pockets, it is main difference. Again, both models were used by paratroops.

    Separate hood was used for third type of jacket or (primary) for a parka.

    Standard head cover was a cap, even in para units, but again, there is many photos of paratroops with red berets worn along with "mloks". I have some photos, showing paratroops dressed up into vz.60 "mlok" jacket (mix of types) and older vz.19 troussers, too. Such mixes were obvious.

    Airborne variant had "jehličí" pattern only. There were jacket, troussers and reversible beret. Jacket was very different from all-army model. It had two larger outside pockets on a back instead of inner one, sleeves with a cuffs and some other minor things. Troussers had cargo pockets on both sides instead of one on a right side and small, but very deep uncovered pocket just above right cargo pocket. It had a very special use, but as there were covers used for rifles, it was used for a more prosaic tasks, like transporting of berets, knives, service or a big shuriken (not so often...).

    That's all.
    URL : https://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/34888#192454Verze : 0